勃艮第最大酒商采访录(上)

他是法国勃艮第最大酒商,也是法国排名第三的葡萄酒酒业巨头,在美国加州他也有颇具规模的葡萄酒产业,事业领域甚至触及家居、时尚、艺术等。他太太是美国最大葡萄酒生产商之一Gallo的家族成员,他产业的扩张速度颇为惊人,是国际葡萄酒行业中极富个性的明星。他就是Jean Charles Boisset先生。

我其实关注他产业已有数年,一直想有机会和他交流。正好最近Jean Charles Boisset先生到北京,和联想佳沃葡萄酒签约合作。联想佳沃葡萄酒正式成为Jean Charles Boisset先生旗下纳帕名庄Raymond Vineyards的在华代理。

我按着约好专访的时间,到了现场,正好在播放Jean Charles Boisset先生旗下酒庄的宣传片,节奏是007风格的,穿插了点小剧情,关键主演居然是他本人,搞怪也是他的特质。这个推广形式倒是蛮有新意。

现实版的Jean Charles Boisset先生,很外向,很愿意表达,聊着聊着容易主题扩散跳跃,所以要及时把话题拽回来。总的来说采访Jean Charles Boisset先生,是很轻松有趣的,而且绝大多数话题,他都会坦诚表达,很少打太极,当然他也会撒鸡汤,不过干货很多。

陆江:您是国际葡萄酒产业的大明星,我很好奇您的成长经历,能否简单分享一下

Jean Charles Boisset(后面缩写为JC Boisset): 我觉得我应该是个生于紫禁城的中国皇室后裔啊。。。开玩笑的!我父母是土生土长的勃艮第武玖(Vougeot)村人,后来在那里开始了他们的酿酒生涯。1969年我出生,也算有缘,出生地正好在酒窖的楼上,可以算是闻着葡萄发酵的味道而生。

我家离Clos de Vougeot特级园很近,葡萄园是我的游乐园,自然的力量和神秘让我着迷。顺便提一下,我喜欢中国的阴阳之道,可以说我从小的成长经历让我对它产生很大兴趣,我热爱中国文化。我的祖父母都是学校教师,从小教育我自然界的一些规律和农历知识,这些和中国的农耕理论也是相通。同时也和现在我们采用的生物动力理论也是一致的,我们注重的是预防,而不是治疗,所以我是生物动力理论的超级粉丝,我认为这是葡萄酒的未来。

陆江:那您学的专业是什么?

我在法国、英国和美国求学,专业是经济和金融。我没有选择和酒相关的专业,因为觉得没有必要。毕竟我四岁就开始参与酿酒了,泡在酒窖里得来的经验比书本上那些管用。当然我深爱葡萄酒,葡萄酒让我延伸涉足到经济、艺术、室内设计、平面设计等领域,给了我很多启发和创新灵感,可以肯定地说,葡萄酒是我命中注定的行业。

陆江:你是一直为自己家族酒庄工作吗?有在其他的酒庄工作过么?

我大学毕业时在银行实习过,太无聊,然后我就回归家族,与家人一起工作,在法国和美国建立了自己的酒庄。我知道自己想要什么,也知道如何去实现。

陆江:您身上能看到不同文化的影子,对您来说您自己更像是美国人,还是更像勃艮第人?

JC Boisset:我都有一点吧,我是勃艮第人,很传统,注重历史和传承,不过我也是美国人,非常在意创造力、主动性,想要与众不同。在我看来,理解过去,是为了更好的创造未来,最重要的是多想想还有什么事情没做,以及如何能用另一种方式去做。

所以其实我是世界人,我爱中国,也爱日本、非洲、美国、加拿大。。。爱这个世界。更准确的说法或许是,我是地球村的村民。当你能够兼容并蓄不同文化,你才能感知他人的想法和感受并与之共情。

陆江:所以您是精神层面上非常丰富的人,我记得还特别喜欢鼓励同事们要有梦想,所以“梦想”这个词在您公司出现频率很高吧?

JC Boisset:是的,您说的非常对,我一直努力的鼓励旁人去发挥想象力,营造一个美丽的梦境。人生不该只有一种颜色,应该是五彩缤纷的,有多种被解读的角度和被展开的方式。我想带领人们进入一段旅程,在那里你会遇到你不了解的你自己。

陆江:那么未来也会涉足葡萄酒以外的其他行业么?

JC Boisset:我们已经葡萄酒以外的业务,像珠宝、酒具、蜡烛,明年还会发布一款香水,是由葡萄提炼出的精油作成的。葡萄酒是一个注重感官体验的产品,那么所有感官体验的产品其实都与之有相关性。另外,收购别人现成的产业是个选择,不过那就不能体验到把它创造出来的快感了。不停的构建新的设想,然后把设想付诸现实,是我最喜欢的事。

陆江:最近勃艮第莫墨森(Mommessin)家族把特级独占园Clos de Tart卖给了Francois Pinault,而之前收购Mommessin家族的酒商业务时,没考虑过收购Clos de Tart?

注:Francois Pinault是法国开云集团的主席,拥有Gucci、以及拉图,Chateau Grillet、Domaine d’Eugenie、Araujo Estate等顶级庄.

JC Boisset:当时Clos de Tart还是为莫墨森(Mommessin)家族30个左右的家庭成员所共有,他们不太想卖。这次终于他们决定卖掉了,不过出价很疯狂。

陆江:2015年Skalli纳帕名庄St Supéry给了香奈儿(Chanel你错过了这家名庄也是同样原因?

JC Boisset:是的,2011年我买下Skalli在法国境内的产业,是他们产业的大部分,全加起来差不多有2000公顷。当时也想顺手买下他们在美国的St Supéry,但是他们不想卖,想自己留着,结果后来2015年卖给香奈儿了。

陆江:在过去的20年里,买了不少酒庄,未来也会继续买下去么?您选酒庄有什么标准吗?

JC Boisset:我喜欢那些有丰富历史的老酒庄,比如Buena Vista,比如纳帕老酒庄Raymond(联想佳沃代理),索诺玛俄罗斯河谷的老酒庄De Loach,勃艮第老酒庄Bouchard Aine&Fils 等。我们会选择那些历史悠久,曾有过用心经营的家族,并且拥有品质出色葡萄园的酒庄。葡萄园太重要了,因此我们也只选择那些出最好葡萄园的地方,隆河谷、伯恩丘、夜丘、夏布利、纳帕等,我刚刚还在St Helena买了一片葡萄园。

陆江:您还会一直收购酒庄吗?

JC Boisset:我还会继续收购酒庄。另一方面,我反复说过一个词:创造(Create)。二十年前,我和我姐姐一起创造了Domaine de la Vougeraie酒庄。要知道你并不是凭空把它造出来,这个创造出来的新酒庄是对它的历史和文化的一种反射。我还有其他的想法,比如会设计杯子、醒酒器,明年你们会看到我设计的两款水晶酒杯上市。除此之外还有酒瓶啊、包装啊,都是我们自己的设计,这些都体现了“创造”这个要点。

酿酒也是如此,我在酿酒的时候,想的不仅仅是风土,还想象着自己喝酒的瞬间,想着自己希望人们怎样去喝这些酒,会有什么样的感觉,这些决定了我酿酒的方式。我决定了这款酒的风格,从这点上来说,我跟设计师是一样的。比如Bouchard Aine&Fils,有力量但不是一款庞大的酒,是很细致的风格。联想佳沃代理的Raymond,精巧纤细风格,是纳帕谷最精致的酒庄之一。每一个酒庄都有自己的风格。

陆江:现在住在美国还是法国呢?

JC Boisset:来回跑吧。我妻子虽然是以美国为主,但是每年也会在法国呆上1/4的时间。事实上我有大把的时间花在路上,我一年大概有40%的时间是在全球四处跑。

陆江:您事业发展么迅速,包括大量收购,你的财力来源呢?

JC Boisset:别忘了我的专业就是学经济金融,自己家族财力肯定不够,我们和银行二十多年来一直就葡萄园项目有合作,我们比较成功,信誉良好,银行是欢迎我们的。

未完待续,下一篇:《勃艮第最大酒商采访录(下)》

[深度群访]意大利葡萄酒在中国的推广现状

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文:陆江 | 葡萄酒在线

(本文已发表于Decanter中文版-醇鉴中国,转载请标明出处和署名)

葡萄酒行业深度群访

天猫酒水节已经结束一段时间,新年将至,我们特别采访了部分行业商会代表,进口商,意大利生产商,以及酒类专业人士等,希望能帮助读者了解意大利葡萄酒在中国市场的发展现状

去年2015年以葡萄酒产量计,意大利是世界第一大葡萄酒生产国,法国和西班牙分别位居第二和第三。尽管意大利葡萄酒在葡萄酒成熟消费市场,如美国,英国和德国等都占有较高份额。

不过在中国市场,根据中国海关统计数据,意大利葡萄酒的市场份额,无论数量(2.893千万升)还是金额(1.005亿美元),都仅列进口葡萄酒来源国的第五位。

近几年意大利也明显加大对中国市场的葡萄酒推广力度,从酒展,培训到媒体走访等。尤其今年上半年4月,意方还邀请了阿里巴巴集团董事会主席马云出席意大利Vinitaly酒展,期间马云还和当时的意大利总理伦齐会面,提到要帮助意大利葡萄酒行业在阿里巴巴的平台上,大力发展酒类电商业务,并且宣布要在9月9日举办天猫全球酒水节。当时给意大利葡萄酒行业带来了信心和期望,也带动了国内进口商对意大利葡萄酒的兴趣。

现在天猫酒水节已经结束一段时间,新年将至,我们特别采访了部分行业商会代表,进口商,意大利生产商,以及酒类专业人士等,希望能帮助读者了解意大利葡萄酒在中国市场的发展现状。

99天猫国际酒水节与意大利葡萄酒

意大利主要葡萄酒生产商GIV集团中国总经理Pizzoli Marco认为:“99天猫国际酒水节有助于提高网络消费者对意大利葡萄酒的关注度,尽管销售成绩可能要未来才能看到。”

天裕风范经营醉芙蓉酒庄在内的四个意大利酒庄,CEO庄武英认为:“实话说,第一届阿里巴巴葡萄酒酒节对行业和对社会普通消费者的影响力不如预期的大。可能与准备时间仓促有关。”

“阿里巴巴运用国人对数字的敏感与痴迷,成功地创造了‘双十一’,但打造一个专业有效的葡萄酒节比单纯的单身购物剁手的传播要复杂得多。当然马云在意大利葡萄酒展上的高调宣布对意大利产区的知名度有一定推动,我们乐见。”

意大利托斯卡纳精品酒名庄AVIGNONESI亚洲市场负责人陈睎认为,首届酒水节“准备的时间比较仓促,能够联合起来的酒庄毕竟有限。对于我们这样的精品小酒庄而言,在天猫现有平台上能够发挥的还比较有限。”

ASC精品酒业发言人则指出:“在中国的葡萄酒行业,投入如此大规模的资金对葡萄酒进行宣传的企业,阿里巴巴是第一个。意大利葡萄酒是本次活动的主要支持方之一,肯定会从本次大规模的宣传中受益,增加品牌认知度,销售收入也有望提高。”

意大利驻华商会主席苏捷傲(Sergio Bertasi)认为:“阿里巴巴的工作,是把意大利生活方式的图像描绘给消费者。但如我所言,中国消费者与意大利葡萄酒之间的磨合只能慢慢推进。只是把意大利葡萄酒引进超市,中国消费者看到了就会去买吗,我不这么认为。”

“阿里巴巴为意大利葡萄酒打开了一扇门,而要将酒卖给消费者,并将文化传递给他们,则要靠我们自己的努力。我们踏出了第一步,还有很长的路要走。”GIV集团中国总经理Pizzoli Marco总结道。

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意大利葡萄酒在中国面临的挑战

“在中国意大利葡萄酒一直是作为法国葡萄酒的补充而存在,这样的尴尬地位显然与它在国际上和历史的地位不符。”天裕风范CEO庄武英说道。

“我们的酒单里面,意大利酒算是比较多,仅次于法国酒之后,意大利葡萄酒红白加在一起,可能占整个酒单的18% 。”北京柏悦酒店葡萄酒总监李美玉介绍道,“平时销售来说,主动点意大利酒的人不那么多,一般是懂酒的人,或者是一些意大利人。普通消费者的话,主动点意大利酒还是比较少。”

这其中的原因,一部分是因为产品质量良莠不齐,此外消费者“对意大利酒的了解途径还是比较少,再加上大部分人不懂酒标上的意大利文,这可能是意大利酒在传播上的一个挑战”,李美玉指出。

华饮(SinoDrink)总经理刘强对此表示同意:“意大利葡萄酒整体的国家形象在中国还没有完整的建立,目前还没有一个意大利品牌在中国市场上突围,意大利葡萄酒的进口在国内还没形成规模和体系,所以意大利葡萄酒在中国市场上的普及还有很远的路要走。”

ASC精品酒业发言人认为,复杂的本土品种、为数众多的产区以及纷杂的产区法规,现阶段令消费者望而却步,但是“意大利葡萄酒最大的挑战也是其最大的机遇。”

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意大利葡萄酒在中国推广的优势和未来市场预期

“国人对意大利生活方式有着天生的亲近感,尤其对意大利奢侈品牌比较痴迷,在对于意大利葡萄酒来说比较占优势。”华饮总经理刘强说道。

天裕风范CEO庄武英认为,“中国还是一个纷乱的新兴市场,可能更有利于新世界葡萄酒大鳄以品牌和葡萄酒品种的角度切入,但一旦饮用葡萄酒的消费者体量提升,大家在品鉴及消费上一定会升级,意大利的小众形象必然受到青睐,这是大趋势。”

“这也是我们在很多相对成熟的新兴市场见到的现象。在美国,意大利葡萄酒依赖强大的移民后裔和广布的意大利餐厅获得了很大的市场份额。在中国,意大利葡萄酒可加强其文化上的优势,很多的产区地名对于普通国人也是耳熟能详比如西西里、坎帕尼亚的那不勒斯等,有利于该地区文化的推广。”

“其实我们基本就可以看日本市场是怎么发展的,中国市场可能也会如此。刚开始难免只是选法国的波尔多,之后意大利酒会慢慢地呈上升趋势的。”北京柏悦酒店葡萄酒总监李美玉说道,“只不过需要我们去引导消费,然后就是需要专业人士去推荐。”

GIV集团中国总经理Pizzoli Marco也指出:“随着消费者葡萄酒知识的增长,意大利葡萄酒的产品系列其实十分适合市场未来的发展趋势,这一点我很有自信。但是,意大利需要增加投入,提高市场份额,宣传自身优势。”

“意大利酒的性价比和多样性是很大的优势。”AVIGNONESI酒庄亚洲市场负责人陈睎认为,“在大多数成熟市场上意大利酒都特别受欢迎,我们在上海市场也看到了这样的趋势,我们对意大利酒在中国的未来很有信心,但这是需要耐心去精耕细作的市场。”

“意大利葡萄酒与其他的意大利元素一样,接受起来需要时间,快不得。”意大利驻华商会主席苏捷傲说道。

“我们希望看到的是持续不断的、战略前后一致的以国家、产区和联合会的多层次、多频次的推广。持之以恒,意大利葡萄酒一定能走出自己在中国市场的独特之路。”天裕风范CEO庄武英总结道。

 

(*点击http://www.Decanter China.com查看原文,查询身边的优质葡萄酒,读遍名家专栏,学练WSET知识点,阅览海内外葡萄酒信息。DecanterChina.com是1975年创刊的国际葡萄酒权威媒体Decanter为日益成长的中国葡萄酒爱好者量身打造的中英文双语网站。)

Group interview: Australian wines in China in the post-Free Trade era

By Maxime Lu / 陆江

What has changed for Australian wines in China since the two countries signed the Free Trade Agreements a year ago? Decanter spoke exclusively to Wine Australia, Chinese importers and wine experts to grasp the momentum.

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Image: Australian Trade and Investment Minister Andrew Robb and Chinese Commerce Minister Gao Hucheng signing the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement in Canberra on 17 June 2015, witnessed by Prime Minister Tony Abbott. Photo: DFAT/Andrew Taylor

The latest of tariff reduction

The latest tariff reduction after the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement came to effect on 1st January 2016.

The second stage of the tariff reduction mean that Australian wines now enjoy a tax rate of 8.4%, as oppose to the original 14%, when entering China, according to Explanatory Schedule of Chinese Tariff Commitments published by Australia’s Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

What has changed so far – Trade body

‘The change mainly lies in the way people see Australian wines,’ Willa Yang, head of trade body Wine Australia in China, told DecanterChina.com.

‘The Australian wineries and importers are much more confident for the market as their products are expected to become more competitive price-wise,’ said Yang.

During the 12 months until September 2016, the export value of Australian wines to China has increased 51% to reach 474 million AUD, while the export volume has increased 52% to hit 90 million litres, according to Wine Australia.

‘The increase is evident to the positive effect of the Free Trade Agreement,’ said Yang.

 

134626_eden-valley-vines-in-barossa-australia-chris-mercer-big
Image: Eden Valley, credit Chris Mercer

Importers

For the importers, the actual effect comes more gradually.

‘We are seeing more and more Australian wineries or brand owners coming to build their online shops, or joining big online wholesalers on Tmall International,’ said Huang Jing of the New Media Department of Alibaba, adding that they are currently working with supermarket and wholesaler groups including Woolworths and Metcash.

‘We saw great growths in sales of Australian wines,’ agreed Joanna Zheng, Senior Product Director of Amazon China.

‘It (Free Trade Agreement) is good news to the market in China but so far its impact on the cost is limited, consequently on the market overall,’ said Matthew Gong, spokesperson of ASC Fine Wines.

‘However, it will eventually give more competitive edge in pricing to Australian wines for their long term development in China.’

Although there’s no significant influence on sales yet, ‘we saw more attention and investment to the Chinese market from producers’, said Wang Xiaoshan, Market Director of Joyvio, wine importer and subsidiary of IT giant Legend Holdings, which also owns Lenovo.

‘The tariff reduction can eventually help merchants to reduce 20% of their costs,’ explained Marcus Ford, General Manager of Pudao Wines and Head of Wine Langton’s East Asia, ‘though it’s still far from the tax-free Hong Kong market.’

Therefore the benefit of the bilateral trade agreement is ‘mainly to attract more attention and investment to Australian Wines,’ said Ford.

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Image: Australian cellar, credit Chris Mercer

Consumers

For consumers, the reduced tariff has brought more ‘minor’ or ‘lesser known’ Australian wines to China, said Christian Zhang, head sommelier of Shanghai Yacht Club On The Bund.

‘Consumers have started to recognise Australian wine brands other than Penfolds. They have started to realise that Australian wines may be a more value-for-money choice than French wines.’

The challenges

The Free Trade Agreement has attracted many to set their feet into the wine industry ‘before getting fully prepared for it,’ warned Ford.

‘The most important thing is how you can get the wines sold,’ he added, ‘It’s not enough just shipping the wines over to China.’

‘For the top-end Australian wines, besides a few famous brands, the vast majority still need an enormous amount of marketing to make them known to consumers,’ said Gong.

The use of screw caps on the more expensive Australian wines is another challenge for consumers to make the decision to buy.

‘Although professional buyers would not mind screw caps, some consumers would still doubt the quality of the wine, especially when they need to pay a higher price for it,’ said Wang Xiaoshan.

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Image: Chinese wine lovers at Decanter Shanghai Fine Wine Encounter

The potential

While Chilean, Argentinian and Spanish wines are fighting for market share in the price bracket under 100 RMB (10 GBP), ‘in the price bracket between 150 to 200 RMB (15 to 20 GBP), you can already find many value-for-money Australian wines,’ said Marcus Ford.

‘This should become the mainstream for Australian wines,’ he said, adding that Australian wines are no longer synonym to ‘cheap wines’, and the top brands are responsible for raising the general image of Australian wines in China.

However, to ensure a long-term development of Australian wines, how to better tackle fake wines is crucial, said Christian Zhang.

‘For example, among the top Australian wines brought by consumers to our restaurant, half or even more can be fake,’ he said.

‘This is seriously damaging to the good name of the producers and their future in the Chinese market.’

In addition, Australian producers should consider adjusting their offering based on market preferences, said the sommelier.

Half-dry Riesling, for example, will be more welcomed by Chinese consumers than the widely available bone-dry style, he said.

As the next step, Wine Australia plans to ‘bring more events to second or third-tier cities in China’, said Willa Yang.

‘The mission is to make consumers feel less distant to (Autralian) wines, and make them feel that this is something they can enjoy casually.’

*This article is an abstract of the original interview.

Translated by Sylvia Wu / 吴嘉溦

The DecanterChina interview: Pudao Wines

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Eighteen months after being purchased by Australia’s Woolworths, Pudao Wines spoke exclusively to DecanterChina.com about its next steps forward.

Image: Marcus Ford at Decanter Asia Wine Awards judging week
Image: Marcus Ford at Decanter Asia Wine Awards judging week

The new investor

More than a year and half ago, the news broke that Pudao Wines, together with its sister firm Summergate, was purchased by Woolworths, one of Australia’s largest wine retailers.

Marcus Ford, general manager of Pudao, said the business ‘has benefitted greatly over the course of the past 18 months in establishing more sophisticated systems and processes.’

‘When Woolworth’s acquired Dan Murphy’s in Australia it too was a small retailer with a very few shops, [and] now it is the dominant wine retailer in the Australian market,’ said Ford, hinting at the retailer’s potential in Greater China.

The post-austerity period

As a fine wine retailer that initially put great emphasis on the corporate gifting sector, Pudao has had to adapt to a new reality.

‘Very few companies now use wine as a gift and those that do are more focused on value offerings than the super premiums of years gone by,’ said Ford.

Currently, most of Pudao’s consumers are buying wines at between 100 to 500RMB (£10-£50) per bottle. ‘Our customers are very open-minded about region and style.’

Amid general changes in the market, ‘we have continued to grow at a healthy and sustainable rate’, said Ford.

Try before you buy

For Pudao Wines, which owns an online store and two offline shops, ‘try before you buy’ is the key in promoting wines to Chinese consumers, said Ford.

The retailer therefore actively invites customers to try wines in their flagship stores in Shanghai and Beijing, and organises hundreds of tasting events, he said.

Offering a specialised service is also important, said Ford. ‘The majority of our staff came from a service background.’

Fake wine: ‘Not just a China problem’

Another concern that’s stopping Chinese consumers from buying wines is the risk of getting fake wines.

‘I would point out though that the fine wine market has problems globally and consumers need to be aware that this is not just a “China problem”,’ said Ford.

‘We work with established importers and have great relationships with many, we are 100% focused on sourcing from the best.’

China in the next 5 to 10 years

‘I think over the past 10 to 15 years the wine market in China has been through some very exciting and sometimes over-heated times,’ said Ford.

The next 5 to 10 years will see a ‘more stable market’ develop as consumers grow in confidence. A key element will be how domestic wines perform, and whether they can compete on quality and value against imported wines, said Ford.

He added that Pudao Wines ‘aims to open more stores over the coming years’, but won’t be rushed.

‘Imported wine is really only a decade old in the China market so whilst we are ambitious we are also in no hurry to open a huge network of stores.

‘In Hong Kong we have re-branded our business under the Langton’s banner (part of the Group) and we are very excited about our fine wine brokerage service that is now up and running there.’

Word of advice for people new to the wine business

‘Wine is a complex business with many layers- some wines are commodities, some are like fast moving consumer goods, some are boutique productions and some are like luxuries and collectibles.

‘You need to be very precise about understanding your customers, what they are looking for and how as a retailer you can add value to their experience.’

Translated by Sylvia Wu / 吴嘉溦