关于自然酒,西班牙酒王之父有话说——专访Peter Sisseck

图文:王智慧 | 葡萄酒在线

如果你记忆力跟我一样不算出色,只记得住超不过三款西班牙葡萄酒的名字,那里面至少应该有个Pingus,不少年份都比拉菲贵上许多的西班牙酒王。1995年在车库葡萄酒的浪潮中应运而生,首个年份就获得罗伯特帕克98分的高分,成为首款入选WA百大的西班牙葡萄酒,帕克桶品时给出了潜力满分的赞誉。此后2003年份拿到了帕克满分,2004年份和2012年份获得了帕克和James Suckling的双满分,注定了它就算每瓶600-1000刀的一手价格,也引得无数粉丝趋之若鹜。

Peter Sisseck,Dominio de Pingus的庄主,曾在波尔多和加州工作,最终在西班牙找到他理想的老藤葡萄园,并安定下来酿酒的丹麦人。喝他的酒你会觉得怎么会有这么天赋的人,把酒做的这么干净好喝。和他聊聊天又觉得,他像个普通小酒庄里的普通酿酒师一样,低调谦和好接触,对自己获得过的山一样高的荣誉缄口不提,总是能发现身边人和事的闪光点并给予严肃真心的称赞。同时又有自己的坚持和骄傲,遇上看不惯的,就不客气的diss过去。上周日在葡道,葡萄酒在线为Peter Sisseck做了专访,发现他跟小编以为重量级大师应该有的样子不太一样。

知识点:Pingus现在在做的酒一共四款:

Pingus
来自老藤葡萄园Barroso和San Cristobal,年产量6000瓶左右。

Flor de Pingus
副牌酒,来自16个不同的葡萄园,年产量60000瓶左右。

PSI
创立于2007年,选取周边的果农的老藤葡萄,意在以此方式保护杜罗河岸产区正在不断消失的古老田产。Psi即为第 23 位的希腊字母Ψ,这一形状象征着平均年龄达70 年的葡萄植株。以丹魄+5%的歌海娜混酿而成,年产量150,000瓶左右。

Château Rocheyron
创始于2010年,与香水调配师兼收藏家Silvio Denz共同买下圣爱美浓的这片平均树龄在45年以上的老藤葡萄园,对于曾在波尔多工作和战斗过的Peter Sisseck来说,既是新的开始,也是回归。梅洛与赤霞珠的比例在70%:30%左右。

Q:听说您现在在Pingus的酿造过程中已经不在用新桶了是么?
Peter Sisseck:是的,用桶的方式和比例一直在不断调整。1995年-2006是用新桶,2006-2012年间新旧同时使用,2012年之后到现在只用旧桶,但是桶陈的时间延长了,过去是16-18个月,现在是18-22个月。这是目前最适合Pingus理念的最自然最好的状态。

Q:就是每一年的Pingus都是很不一样的哈。我们知道Pingus2004年和2012年拿过帕克的满分,不过在您心里,觉得Pingus最好的年份是哪个呢?
Peter Sisseck:我认为年份不是重点。坏年份也可以出很好的葡萄酒,我曾经去参加过罗曼尼康帝1956年份的品鉴,被公认为极差年份,一切不希望发生的那一年都发生了,可那天的酒是我喝过最好的酒,从未有过的美妙体验。

Q:我明白您的意思,可葡萄毕竟是靠天吃饭的,好一年,坏一年,比如说很多人都不太开心的今年,2017年,没办法的事。年份肯定还是葡萄酒非常重要的指标吧?
Peter Sisseck:肯定会遇上天灾,各种各样的,冰雹、霜冻、在加州你还会遇上大火。比如2002年,也是唯一的一年我们没做Pingus的正牌,只做了Flor,因为天气确实是太糟糕了。我的意思是,大家对年份有点强调的过分了。扫一眼年份就给一瓶酒定性,说它百分百行,或者不行,这是不对的。而且还有一点很重要,不同的年份给你不同的惊喜。即使是特别特别好的年份,比如2009年,我也不希望每年都跟2009年一样,这就意味着我的酒得每年都跟2009年的酒是一样的,那得有多无趣。

Q:您是生物动力法的推行者,生物动力管理的葡萄园应该抵御糟糕天气的能力要比一般更强吧?
Peter Sisseck:是的,但是关键还是非常细心的照料。

Q:生物动力不是,顺其自然的让它自己发展就行了么?
Peter Sisseck:生物动力,Biodynamic,这意味要dynamic,就是发挥你的主观能动性才行。说起来简单,其实需要你对自然有深刻的了解,熟悉它,才能与之协作。我侄子有一段时间一直咳嗽。他母亲就是个所谓严格的生物动力信徒。她在我侄子胸口贴了些洋葱,除此之外没有做任何处理。结果我侄子得了肺炎。无需因为说要遵从自然,就回到山洞里过茹毛饮血的生活,那也太蠢了。

Q:报道说在香港的酒展上你Diss了自然酒,狠狠的嫌弃了它们,真有此事么?
Peter Sisseck:不,我Diss的是消极不作为的态度。我对自然酒没有偏见,但有时有人打着自然酒的幌子出来骗人,这就是他们的不对了。

Q:我听过一些自然酿酒师的讲座,仍然感到困惑,因为没人给出过自然酒的定义,到底什么自然酒呢?
Peter Sisseck:在我看来,是尽量减少人为干预酿造的酒吧。你看,我也用天然酵母,我用生物动力,不过滤,其实我就是自然酒啊。你说说,当你讲自然酒的时候,是不是没把我算进去?

Q:啊被发现了。。。因为在我心里自然酒就是冷门、小众的代名词。你的酒有西班牙酒王的尊称,人见人爱,这么主流。所以我就很自然的,把它划出了自然酒的范畴?
Peter Sisseck:你这正好证明了我的观点,有些人说他们的酒未经过滤,有很多酒泥,所以不清澈,说它们粗糙是因为天然,它们有许多问题,然而这些不完美让它完美。这都是说瞎话。说自然酒是特别的,小众的,这世上只有2%的人能够领会到它的美丽。这都是扯。它们的沉淀不是像老酒一样,经过醒酒器之后它们会非常美好,是真浑浊。我强调过了,我就是自然酒,刚才你也喝到13年份的Pingus了,没经过过滤,但它是清澈的。

自然酒的理论:酿酒是一个自然而然的过程,让它自然发生,不要多加干涉,这是对的。但是你要给它提供一个好的无菌的环境,温度不能太高也不能太低,不是说你控制它,但是你要帮助它,像保护小孩子一样保护它,才能实现它最美好的样子。

Q:您的解释让我清晰了很多,我们来聊聊您另外几款酒吧。PSI是您从周边收的葡萄是吧,那些也是生物动力葡萄园么?
Peter Sisseck:不是的,在未来会逐步鼓励种植者进行生物动力。有些老家伙,太老了,你跟他们说,嘿用生物动力吧,然后他们看你那个眼神。。。你能想象么。得慢慢来。目前我的选择标准是相对古老的葡萄园,它经历过许多岁月,成为前人留给我们的宝贵遗产。许多目光短浅的人,在里奥哈以及其他很多地方,将老葡萄园拔掉重种一些更国际化的葡萄品种,实在太可惜了。

Q:关于老藤其实并没有官方确切的定义,您觉得多老就可以算是老藤了呢?
Peter Sisseck:25-30年以上吧。

Q:您提到过您下个计划是做一款雪莉是吧,为什么会有这个想法呢?
Peter Sisseck:我一直都想做一款白葡萄酒,能特别一点的。直到有一天我忽然意识到,Fino也算是白葡萄酒呀。是的,茹拉有不少黄酒,跟雪莉的酿造方式很相似,它们不是我们常规意义上的白葡萄酒,不过还是用白葡萄做的,精髓还是在于对风土的诠释。你跟许多雪莉的酿造者聊天,他们中的许多人都认为对于雪莉这样的加强酒来说,重要的是技术,对酒花的培养什么的。我不认为如此,葡萄还是最重要。比如香槟,也是经过二次发酵,经过很多技术处理的酒。如果技术是最重要的,那么为什么最好的香槟都是出自最好的葡萄园,有的葡萄园就能名满天下别的就不行,雪莉也是一回事儿。我最喜欢的事儿就是,用事实证明是别人是错的。

Q:除了雪莉,有没有其他成功人士都会有的五年计划,十年计划什么的?
Peter Sisseck:真的没有,路在脚下,你向前走就是了。然而也不确定自己会走到哪里。

在采访现场,Peter Sisseck喝到现场工作人员准备的,来自宁夏迦南美地的Pretty Ponny,并夸奖说,“单宁很棒,平衡很好,我很喜欢它的结构和质感。酿酒的人是非常好的酿酒师。”

当被问及对于中国葡萄酒的看法,Peter表示,我知道中国种鲜食葡萄的历史很久,但是没有种酿酒葡萄的历史。但是根据我的观察,中国人很厉害,他们认真的想做一件事,并且开始做了,就会做得很好。只不过这不是一朝一夕的事情,需要一点时间,给葡萄园一点成长的时间。所以我曾经对我们的工作团队说,我们要更加保护西班牙的老藤啊,不然到时候情况就会换过来。人家中国六十年后就有厉害的老藤了,而我们那个时候就没有了。

关于当天现场的几款酒,附上葡萄酒在线陆江老师的品鉴笔记,仅供参考:

品鉴记录 BY 陆江

PSI 2012
红色水果果味,红色花香,中重酒体,柔滑,活跃清新,易饮,干净,单宁中强,回味中长,有西方香料气息。

Chateau Rocheyron 2014 醒酒器30分钟
西方香料,黑色果味,果味为主,中重酒体,柔滑,活跃,单宁强且细致成熟收敛,酒体集中,优雅透出些轻盈,回味长。

2014
黑色果味充沛,干净,西方香料,烟叶,重酒体,饱满活跃,果味充盈口中,清新,酒体集中,单宁强劲,结构完整,回味长,西方香料,湿纸灰。

Pingus 2013
西方香料,黑色果味,透出一丝烟叶,细致香气,稍有封闭,重酒体,完整庞大的结构,单宁强,成熟厚实,骨架清晰完整,活跃,复杂有层次,回味长。

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[深度群访]意大利葡萄酒在中国的推广现状

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文:陆江 | 葡萄酒在线

(本文已发表于Decanter中文版-醇鉴中国,转载请标明出处和署名)

葡萄酒行业深度群访

天猫酒水节已经结束一段时间,新年将至,我们特别采访了部分行业商会代表,进口商,意大利生产商,以及酒类专业人士等,希望能帮助读者了解意大利葡萄酒在中国市场的发展现状

去年2015年以葡萄酒产量计,意大利是世界第一大葡萄酒生产国,法国和西班牙分别位居第二和第三。尽管意大利葡萄酒在葡萄酒成熟消费市场,如美国,英国和德国等都占有较高份额。

不过在中国市场,根据中国海关统计数据,意大利葡萄酒的市场份额,无论数量(2.893千万升)还是金额(1.005亿美元),都仅列进口葡萄酒来源国的第五位。

近几年意大利也明显加大对中国市场的葡萄酒推广力度,从酒展,培训到媒体走访等。尤其今年上半年4月,意方还邀请了阿里巴巴集团董事会主席马云出席意大利Vinitaly酒展,期间马云还和当时的意大利总理伦齐会面,提到要帮助意大利葡萄酒行业在阿里巴巴的平台上,大力发展酒类电商业务,并且宣布要在9月9日举办天猫全球酒水节。当时给意大利葡萄酒行业带来了信心和期望,也带动了国内进口商对意大利葡萄酒的兴趣。

现在天猫酒水节已经结束一段时间,新年将至,我们特别采访了部分行业商会代表,进口商,意大利生产商,以及酒类专业人士等,希望能帮助读者了解意大利葡萄酒在中国市场的发展现状。

99天猫国际酒水节与意大利葡萄酒

意大利主要葡萄酒生产商GIV集团中国总经理Pizzoli Marco认为:“99天猫国际酒水节有助于提高网络消费者对意大利葡萄酒的关注度,尽管销售成绩可能要未来才能看到。”

天裕风范经营醉芙蓉酒庄在内的四个意大利酒庄,CEO庄武英认为:“实话说,第一届阿里巴巴葡萄酒酒节对行业和对社会普通消费者的影响力不如预期的大。可能与准备时间仓促有关。”

“阿里巴巴运用国人对数字的敏感与痴迷,成功地创造了‘双十一’,但打造一个专业有效的葡萄酒节比单纯的单身购物剁手的传播要复杂得多。当然马云在意大利葡萄酒展上的高调宣布对意大利产区的知名度有一定推动,我们乐见。”

意大利托斯卡纳精品酒名庄AVIGNONESI亚洲市场负责人陈睎认为,首届酒水节“准备的时间比较仓促,能够联合起来的酒庄毕竟有限。对于我们这样的精品小酒庄而言,在天猫现有平台上能够发挥的还比较有限。”

ASC精品酒业发言人则指出:“在中国的葡萄酒行业,投入如此大规模的资金对葡萄酒进行宣传的企业,阿里巴巴是第一个。意大利葡萄酒是本次活动的主要支持方之一,肯定会从本次大规模的宣传中受益,增加品牌认知度,销售收入也有望提高。”

意大利驻华商会主席苏捷傲(Sergio Bertasi)认为:“阿里巴巴的工作,是把意大利生活方式的图像描绘给消费者。但如我所言,中国消费者与意大利葡萄酒之间的磨合只能慢慢推进。只是把意大利葡萄酒引进超市,中国消费者看到了就会去买吗,我不这么认为。”

“阿里巴巴为意大利葡萄酒打开了一扇门,而要将酒卖给消费者,并将文化传递给他们,则要靠我们自己的努力。我们踏出了第一步,还有很长的路要走。”GIV集团中国总经理Pizzoli Marco总结道。

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意大利葡萄酒在中国面临的挑战

“在中国意大利葡萄酒一直是作为法国葡萄酒的补充而存在,这样的尴尬地位显然与它在国际上和历史的地位不符。”天裕风范CEO庄武英说道。

“我们的酒单里面,意大利酒算是比较多,仅次于法国酒之后,意大利葡萄酒红白加在一起,可能占整个酒单的18% 。”北京柏悦酒店葡萄酒总监李美玉介绍道,“平时销售来说,主动点意大利酒的人不那么多,一般是懂酒的人,或者是一些意大利人。普通消费者的话,主动点意大利酒还是比较少。”

这其中的原因,一部分是因为产品质量良莠不齐,此外消费者“对意大利酒的了解途径还是比较少,再加上大部分人不懂酒标上的意大利文,这可能是意大利酒在传播上的一个挑战”,李美玉指出。

华饮(SinoDrink)总经理刘强对此表示同意:“意大利葡萄酒整体的国家形象在中国还没有完整的建立,目前还没有一个意大利品牌在中国市场上突围,意大利葡萄酒的进口在国内还没形成规模和体系,所以意大利葡萄酒在中国市场上的普及还有很远的路要走。”

ASC精品酒业发言人认为,复杂的本土品种、为数众多的产区以及纷杂的产区法规,现阶段令消费者望而却步,但是“意大利葡萄酒最大的挑战也是其最大的机遇。”

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意大利葡萄酒在中国推广的优势和未来市场预期

“国人对意大利生活方式有着天生的亲近感,尤其对意大利奢侈品牌比较痴迷,在对于意大利葡萄酒来说比较占优势。”华饮总经理刘强说道。

天裕风范CEO庄武英认为,“中国还是一个纷乱的新兴市场,可能更有利于新世界葡萄酒大鳄以品牌和葡萄酒品种的角度切入,但一旦饮用葡萄酒的消费者体量提升,大家在品鉴及消费上一定会升级,意大利的小众形象必然受到青睐,这是大趋势。”

“这也是我们在很多相对成熟的新兴市场见到的现象。在美国,意大利葡萄酒依赖强大的移民后裔和广布的意大利餐厅获得了很大的市场份额。在中国,意大利葡萄酒可加强其文化上的优势,很多的产区地名对于普通国人也是耳熟能详比如西西里、坎帕尼亚的那不勒斯等,有利于该地区文化的推广。”

“其实我们基本就可以看日本市场是怎么发展的,中国市场可能也会如此。刚开始难免只是选法国的波尔多,之后意大利酒会慢慢地呈上升趋势的。”北京柏悦酒店葡萄酒总监李美玉说道,“只不过需要我们去引导消费,然后就是需要专业人士去推荐。”

GIV集团中国总经理Pizzoli Marco也指出:“随着消费者葡萄酒知识的增长,意大利葡萄酒的产品系列其实十分适合市场未来的发展趋势,这一点我很有自信。但是,意大利需要增加投入,提高市场份额,宣传自身优势。”

“意大利酒的性价比和多样性是很大的优势。”AVIGNONESI酒庄亚洲市场负责人陈睎认为,“在大多数成熟市场上意大利酒都特别受欢迎,我们在上海市场也看到了这样的趋势,我们对意大利酒在中国的未来很有信心,但这是需要耐心去精耕细作的市场。”

“意大利葡萄酒与其他的意大利元素一样,接受起来需要时间,快不得。”意大利驻华商会主席苏捷傲说道。

“我们希望看到的是持续不断的、战略前后一致的以国家、产区和联合会的多层次、多频次的推广。持之以恒,意大利葡萄酒一定能走出自己在中国市场的独特之路。”天裕风范CEO庄武英总结道。

 

(*点击http://www.Decanter China.com查看原文,查询身边的优质葡萄酒,读遍名家专栏,学练WSET知识点,阅览海内外葡萄酒信息。DecanterChina.com是1975年创刊的国际葡萄酒权威媒体Decanter为日益成长的中国葡萄酒爱好者量身打造的中英文双语网站。)

Group interview: Australian wines in China in the post-Free Trade era

By Maxime Lu / 陆江

What has changed for Australian wines in China since the two countries signed the Free Trade Agreements a year ago? Decanter spoke exclusively to Wine Australia, Chinese importers and wine experts to grasp the momentum.

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Image: Australian Trade and Investment Minister Andrew Robb and Chinese Commerce Minister Gao Hucheng signing the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement in Canberra on 17 June 2015, witnessed by Prime Minister Tony Abbott. Photo: DFAT/Andrew Taylor

The latest of tariff reduction

The latest tariff reduction after the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement came to effect on 1st January 2016.

The second stage of the tariff reduction mean that Australian wines now enjoy a tax rate of 8.4%, as oppose to the original 14%, when entering China, according to Explanatory Schedule of Chinese Tariff Commitments published by Australia’s Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

What has changed so far – Trade body

‘The change mainly lies in the way people see Australian wines,’ Willa Yang, head of trade body Wine Australia in China, told DecanterChina.com.

‘The Australian wineries and importers are much more confident for the market as their products are expected to become more competitive price-wise,’ said Yang.

During the 12 months until September 2016, the export value of Australian wines to China has increased 51% to reach 474 million AUD, while the export volume has increased 52% to hit 90 million litres, according to Wine Australia.

‘The increase is evident to the positive effect of the Free Trade Agreement,’ said Yang.

 

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Image: Eden Valley, credit Chris Mercer

Importers

For the importers, the actual effect comes more gradually.

‘We are seeing more and more Australian wineries or brand owners coming to build their online shops, or joining big online wholesalers on Tmall International,’ said Huang Jing of the New Media Department of Alibaba, adding that they are currently working with supermarket and wholesaler groups including Woolworths and Metcash.

‘We saw great growths in sales of Australian wines,’ agreed Joanna Zheng, Senior Product Director of Amazon China.

‘It (Free Trade Agreement) is good news to the market in China but so far its impact on the cost is limited, consequently on the market overall,’ said Matthew Gong, spokesperson of ASC Fine Wines.

‘However, it will eventually give more competitive edge in pricing to Australian wines for their long term development in China.’

Although there’s no significant influence on sales yet, ‘we saw more attention and investment to the Chinese market from producers’, said Wang Xiaoshan, Market Director of Joyvio, wine importer and subsidiary of IT giant Legend Holdings, which also owns Lenovo.

‘The tariff reduction can eventually help merchants to reduce 20% of their costs,’ explained Marcus Ford, General Manager of Pudao Wines and Head of Wine Langton’s East Asia, ‘though it’s still far from the tax-free Hong Kong market.’

Therefore the benefit of the bilateral trade agreement is ‘mainly to attract more attention and investment to Australian Wines,’ said Ford.

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Image: Australian cellar, credit Chris Mercer

Consumers

For consumers, the reduced tariff has brought more ‘minor’ or ‘lesser known’ Australian wines to China, said Christian Zhang, head sommelier of Shanghai Yacht Club On The Bund.

‘Consumers have started to recognise Australian wine brands other than Penfolds. They have started to realise that Australian wines may be a more value-for-money choice than French wines.’

The challenges

The Free Trade Agreement has attracted many to set their feet into the wine industry ‘before getting fully prepared for it,’ warned Ford.

‘The most important thing is how you can get the wines sold,’ he added, ‘It’s not enough just shipping the wines over to China.’

‘For the top-end Australian wines, besides a few famous brands, the vast majority still need an enormous amount of marketing to make them known to consumers,’ said Gong.

The use of screw caps on the more expensive Australian wines is another challenge for consumers to make the decision to buy.

‘Although professional buyers would not mind screw caps, some consumers would still doubt the quality of the wine, especially when they need to pay a higher price for it,’ said Wang Xiaoshan.

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Image: Chinese wine lovers at Decanter Shanghai Fine Wine Encounter

The potential

While Chilean, Argentinian and Spanish wines are fighting for market share in the price bracket under 100 RMB (10 GBP), ‘in the price bracket between 150 to 200 RMB (15 to 20 GBP), you can already find many value-for-money Australian wines,’ said Marcus Ford.

‘This should become the mainstream for Australian wines,’ he said, adding that Australian wines are no longer synonym to ‘cheap wines’, and the top brands are responsible for raising the general image of Australian wines in China.

However, to ensure a long-term development of Australian wines, how to better tackle fake wines is crucial, said Christian Zhang.

‘For example, among the top Australian wines brought by consumers to our restaurant, half or even more can be fake,’ he said.

‘This is seriously damaging to the good name of the producers and their future in the Chinese market.’

In addition, Australian producers should consider adjusting their offering based on market preferences, said the sommelier.

Half-dry Riesling, for example, will be more welcomed by Chinese consumers than the widely available bone-dry style, he said.

As the next step, Wine Australia plans to ‘bring more events to second or third-tier cities in China’, said Willa Yang.

‘The mission is to make consumers feel less distant to (Autralian) wines, and make them feel that this is something they can enjoy casually.’

*This article is an abstract of the original interview.

Translated by Sylvia Wu / 吴嘉溦

Interview on Winemaker of Aoyun, the most expensive Chinese Wine

Jiang LU (Maxime LU)

 

Speaking of the most expensive and most international wine now made in China, the first on the list should be Aoyun wine (AOYUN) produced in Yunnan Shangri-La by the world’s top luxury group LVMH. Many other domestic wines claimed to be the same,but we know they are just good at amusing themselves and access to only some special channels, even much more expensive than AOYUN.  While AOYUN is different,it has been tested by the consumers from London to New York fine wine market,approved by many international wine experts and specialists,accepted by the strongest wine merchants including BBR and Live-ex,and finally entered into Chinese market. Nonetheless,we have to admit its price is high(more than 2000RMB,300 euros around),that’s why it arouse so much controversy in domestic and international wine market.`

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I have been following LVMH Aoyun winery since 2014. LVMH Group has always been a fine wine industry giant, owning such as Chateau Cheval Blanc、Chateau d’Yquem 、Domaine des Lambrays、Krug and many other super top wine brands. This time LVMH also plans to create a luxury boutique wine,which actually could benifit all Chinese wines by enhancing their international reputations。

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Simple background information about Aoyun
It took LVMH four years to find a perfect vineyard. Finally they chose the site in Shangri-La, near Meili Snow Mountain (6800 meters above sea level), and beside the Mekong River.
The daylight hours in the mountains is only 8-9,less than that is in Bordeaux。It results in a long growing season, giving enough time for phenols,acids and sugars to ripe. The flowering period in Bordeaux is generally 100-120 days, while in Aoyun vineyard it could be up to 140-160 days.

The pruning and managing work is all done by hand。Traffic is a disaster。The vineyard,with a total area of around 28 hectares,2200-2600m above sea levels,is distributed in four villages and divided into 320 little plots(one plot covers an area of 1.3 acres on average)。Every hector requires about 3500 hours of manpower to manage。People who work in the field are mainly local Tibetans who have their own cultures and habits。It’s very difficult to communicate with them。

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As mentioned earlier, at present the way Aoyun priced its products remains controversial. I wouldn’t judge it, but leave it to the consumers. What I will do is to share with you my experience of a serious Aoyun tasting. Besides, it’s so lucky for me to get a chance to interview Maxence Dulou, the chief winemaker of the winery.

Chief winemaker Maxence Dulou,live in Yunnan and work with the team since 2012,now is in charge of all the viticultural and winemaking work.

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What do you think of other wine regions in China?

I’ve been to Shandong, and Ningxia twice in the past two years, where I had many quality red wines and do feel its big improvement. Nonetheless each of them has their own problems. In Shandong, there is too much rain, the weather is so wet that the grapes cannot achieve desired maturity, but with some green flavor. It would be difficult to develop organic there. While Ningxia is always sunny, the grapes are able to accumulate enough sugar in the harvest season,but lack acidity,and their tannins cannot ripe enough. It is very cold in the winter, so grapes need to be buried to keep warm. But overall it seems fairly comforting.

 

In your opinion,what technologies can be used to make up for the inadequacy caused by the weather?

It is the same to all the regions that if there is a real dizaster, the winemaker could do nothing but learn to be strong. The weather varies considerably from June to August in Yunnan。But when it comes to the harvest season, generally from mid-September to the end of October, everyday is sunny and dry, and the grapes can achieve satisfying maturity.

This kind of cliamte is suitable for the implementation of organic management, so that’s what we do there: use Bordeaux mixture and yak manure only in the vineyard; try to minimize human intervention as possible as we can so that the grapes can gradually adapt themselves to the environment and be able to cope up with all the harsh weathers.

Currently we have only three years cultivation experience and four years operation experience there. We need much more time to master all the micro-climate changes discipline in the production area.

 

Your vineyard is 2000m high above sea level, thus sunlight would be very strong in the summer. Do you have any special vineyard management techniques (framing, pruning, etc.)?

We use VSP model, which keeps the leaves all through the growing season and cuts some in the veraison period. The leaves facing southwest will always be kept to protect grapes from strong sunlight. The climate varies every year, so pruning work must be done depending on conditions. For example, this June is cloudy, which means we don’t need to cut too much. Unlike France, thick clouds will weaken the sunlight but will not block it,nor have any impact on the growth of the grapes. It is because we are in such a high altitude. The clouds are sometimes only 100 meters above our heads(and sometimes even below us). Sunlight can always find a way to penetrate the clouds into the vineyard to ripen the grapes.

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What are the plans for the future development of the winery?
We’ll make new technical attempts such as cultivate more grape varieties, improve the pruning and grass planting work, use Chinese pottery in the fermentation and so on.

 

It is said the Chinese pottery you just mentioned have been used in making 2013 vintage of Aoyun Wine. Does it work well?

We had 40 days maceration(including fermentation), and then moved into second fermentation ( malo-lactic fermentation). 40% new french oak is used at this stage. The rest used old barrels as we normally do. But it is impossible for us to bring in barrels from France due to the inconvenient transportation. Nor could we purchase any old ones from nearby production areas, as different yeast may carry bad bacteria and cause contamination. Thus we chose to use a nuetral container, which could not add any floavor to the wine but will not add any bad effect either. The pottery was by far a satisfying choice. They are brand new,and use to hold local spirits.

 

Does Auyun use manual irrigation?

In California and Australia,the grape roots are bout 50cm long, people use drip irrigation, which means, you give grapes the exact amount what it needs. But drip irrigation will make the surface soil too hard. While in Ao Yun, the grape roots are up to 3 meters, so they can absorb more water from soil and need no irrigation. Natural rainfall is enough for them. In dry winter, we do small range of flood irrigation from time to time. In this way, we can both offer waters to the vine and avoid soil hardening.

 

3 meters’ roots? I thought Ao yun had only young vines? How do you control the quality of the grapes? (By Lu Jiang)

We call five or six years old vines young vines. But vines used to make this bottle are already 15 years old. There are many local farmers who planted grapes in this area far before we purchase the estate. At the first two years, we did a lot of research and finally planted some grapes in the last year (2015). These baby vines need time to produce qualified grapes for wine. However, the wine in front of us is made by grapes from 15 years old vine with 3 meters’ roots. 15 years old vine took half of the area of our current vineyard.

In the past, farmers sell grapes to the winery by weight. So you can imagine, the only thing they care about is yields. After we came, we tell the villagers how to work through an interpreter, stay in complete control of quality and rationalize ourselves. We did a lot work here, for example we introduced rootstock grafting. Fisrt, this can improve grape quality. Second, it can prevent Phylloxera——no signs of it now, but once it occurs,it would be a disaster. We analyze the composition and structure of the soil and chose the most suitable rootstock. If the rootstocks do improve the quality, we’ll replant all the old vines.

 

So actually you have studied the vineyards since long ago?
Yes,we started to plant grapes in 2015,but begun to communicate with local government since 2012,and have been studying the field since 2008,8 years ago.

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Currently how many varieties are planted in the vineyards?
Mainly Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot,Petit Verdot and some tested verities. Besides that, we planned to try Shira and Malbec, but stays undecided.

Does Domaine Chandon Ningxia purchase from COFCO Corporation Grape Seedling Base too?( By Lu Jiang)

yes!

 

How do you determine the time for Aoyun to come into the market officailly?
Its quality has been repeatedly confirmed that it can meet our strict requirements. Its performance is always stable. It is widely praised by all the international heavyweights in wine industry whom we sent the wine to. They all recognize it as a unique and great Cab, and the best wine in China. At this point, we thought we are ready to bring it to the market.

 

Could you describe Aoyun from your point of view?

It’s the new interpretation of Cabernet Sauvignon. Deep color, with both fresh fruit and ripe fruit characteristics. Freshness and lively acidity is from the unique terroir. Many people would think of Pauillac the first time they smell it,with similar aroma like cigar, tabacco and cedar. While someone find it more like California wines, very fruity, delicious, full-bodied. For me it’s somewhere in between. The tannin is as elegant and structured as I expected. In a word, we don’t want to cater to a growing demand fo strong wines, but a sophisticated and graceful wine, the wine that can represent the sacred mountain and its terroir.

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AOYUN 2013  Tasting note (By Maxime LU)

Intense with ripe black fruit flavors, violets and western spices, revealing a trace of smoke and dark chocolate. Full-bodied and crisp, fruity-forward, with strong and converged tannins and delicate texture. Balanced, in the last part you can feel it slight alcoholic. Tobacco and spices can be found in the long finish, Alc.=15%, Ph=3.55

You can still tell that it’s from new world, but indeed elegant. I must say it’s good. As for the price, you can listen to either LVMH ( because of the high cost, more than Chateau Cheval Blanc and Chateau D’yquem) or some critics(almost as expensive as Chateau Cheval Blanc and Opus one, so unreasonable), or just keep quiet, wait and see how it will behave in the market.

Maxime LU